Star Wars; The Old Republic..

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Re: Star Wars; The Old Republic..

Postby Feaduin » Mon Nov 28, 2011 11:32 pm

I'm very glad I got to try out two classes I wasn't going to consider playing. I came in thinking that I would have time to focus on 1, maybe 2 characters at most. One for each side. Now I'm coming into the release with the idea that I need to make 8 :P
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Re: Star Wars; The Old Republic..

Postby PopnFresh » Tue Nov 29, 2011 2:59 pm

Sord wrote:Tier 1 talent to "Reduce damage taken by 1%"

Really? I thought we got away from stupid boring talents like that. How the hell did that make it through?


I actually kinda like this stuff, but maybe I'm just quenching my thirst with the Kool Aid. I feel like a lot of things like talents and powers are all well and good no matter what they are as long as they fit into the confines and context of the game systems. WoW's talent streamlining in Cataclysm felt like something that required a solid, entrenched system before it could get to that point. In other words, had Vanilla WoW launched with the same talent structure as Cataclysm, it probably wouldn't been nearly as good because of all the major and minor class balance changes that are necessary when an MMO is first launched upon millions of players.

Not that gaining 1% of reduced damage is an exciting way to spend a talent point, but I just don't have a problem with not being excited by that point when I'm getting one every level.

I'm pretty excited by this thing finally launching. It will have plenty of warts at first, but the base game is fun and if they can really support it the way they intend to, it should have a pretty long life with a reasonably smooth beginning.
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Re: Star Wars; The Old Republic..

Postby Kiawah » Wed Nov 30, 2011 8:55 am

Sidonia wrote:
Kiawah wrote:and TOR isn't a game where anyone is going to speed level, so it'll be awhile before end game rampts up anyways.



What? Are you serious? There is still going to be that percentage of the player base who are going to speed through the game (even if they were enver in beta and it is their first experience) and get to the 'end' game before the first month is even up



Yeah... I definitely see this now, especially after this weekend. In this weekend alone, I got 3 toons past Coruscant and a 4th off the starter world, in just one weekend. I have no doubt had I focused on one toon I would've made it into the 30's at least.

This weekend I played a Trooper Commando, Consular Shadow, Smuggler Scoundrel all past Coruscant (not including the Sage I got in the 20's the previous beta weekend), as well as a Sith Warrior off Korriban.

By far the toon I liked the most was the Commando. He is an AE death machine and absolutely wrecks stuff. I wasn't even going to play a trooper, but I liked the Commando so much, it very well might turn into my first toon. The Sage looks like it will turn out to be the better healer, so it's possible I still may do a Sage, but I will definitely have a trooper toon. I really enjoyed the Sith Warrior as well, both in story and mechanics. I really wish we were going Sith lol, but I'll definitely have a Sith or two alts.

My least two favorite was the Shadow and Scoundrel. The Shadow felt really weak and the dps rotation was extremely boring. Stealth also felt really useless, at least in the lower levels. A lot of it has to do with the style of combat in TOR. It's not like WoW where you're fighting 1 strong mob usually... while fighting in TOR you're usually fighting 2-3... so you ambush one (it doesn't even kill them) but you still have the other mobs to deal with, so it's not like you gain much by getting an in an opening attack. I'm sure it's one of those things, "it'll get better as you gain more abilities" but as of now I couldn't see playing either advanced class, except maybe tanking as a Shadow. But really... the game mechanics so heavily favor ranged classes that playing a melee toon is going to be extremely annoying.

What I didn't like about the Scoundrel was the lack of CC. The Sage had at least 3-4 different ways to CC someone... at level 20, the Scoundrel had 1, a short stun only in melee range. That really made a difference in tougher fights, like the ones that are 1 strong mob and 1-2 weak ones. It made the class feel a lot weaker. Not having portable cover was also kind of annoying. It's just one of those things that feels limiting, in an unneccessary way. Why limit yourself to cover when you can get around it with other classes?

My biggest beef with the game in general though was the lack of xp in warzones and flash points. I mean, if you do Hammer Station at level 20... you're lucky to get 1/4 of a bar of xp. And it's not like the instance is quick and easy... it takes awhile and is pretty challenging. The flash points are probably the most fun part of the game... it sucks that I probably won't even bother with them while leveling b/c the xp to time ratio isn't even close to being productive.

Overall the game is solid though and worth playing. Hopefully Bioware can support it like they want to. If they can, the game will have a long shelf life.

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Re: Star Wars; The Old Republic..

Postby Munki » Wed Nov 30, 2011 11:25 am

But really... the game mechanics so heavily favor ranged classes that playing a melee toon is going to be extremely annoying.


I heard this and was pretty disappointed. I mean, I've been pretty sure I was going to be a Trooper Vanguard for awhile now, but I have always been a fan of melee toons. I guess on the upside I bet you will see less Jedi than I originally thought! :D

The lack of xp in Flashpoints sucks, but at least for me I'm more focused on the content / story stuff. I really don't care when I hit max level in this game as I have no plans to raid. So at this point, the level will only determine which friends I can group with.

I really liked the Commando lol. I wanted to be a Vanguard because I like tanking, but god damn if that minigun isn't awesome :)
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Re: Star Wars; The Old Republic..

Postby Sidonia » Wed Nov 30, 2011 1:54 pm

Granted I only got to level 20 or so on my Vanguard, but if you go up the DPS spec, it's more of a melee toon. Stock Strike and Gut are both melee range moves and play heavily in that spec.

Not sure if the tank spec is as much, but I know it has a couple of talents that buff up or play off Stockstrike.

The shared tree I think favors ranged more as a Vanguard though.

Commando is definitely more ranged oriented of the two AC's though with cast times on some of their main moves, much more like a traditional nuker.

I still can't decide on what I want to play, other then I know I don't want to be a Smuggler/IA at all. I don't really dig the cover system. I think it's an awesome thing to put in, but I'm no good with it. I've played around with a Sentinel, Shadow, Vanguard, and Commando and I kinda like them all. FemShep as FemTrooper is kinda a nice little draw too.

But yeah.. right now any ranged that can snare and kite has a pretty big advantage over all the melee classes with a lot of the ranged moves those classes had getting their range nerfed down to 10 from 15. It doesn't seem like much, but it is. The melee classes don't have enough gap closers to make up for all the gap makers.

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Re: Star Wars; The Old Republic..

Postby Evenflow » Wed Nov 30, 2011 2:27 pm

I got to 25 has a Jedi Consular Shadow and thought the melee was pretty fun. I would like to try out a range spec for my Inquisitor when the game is out if there is a dual spec at launch or down the line.
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Re: Star Wars; The Old Republic..

Postby Feaduin » Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:02 pm

Well now that someone mentioned it, yeah you're right... it is much easier to take down the harder mobs when you can still DPS and the melee mob, whether champion or weak, can't touch you while you kite. I could take on two or more elite level guys if I just run around in circles and stay out of melee. My S.Ass could never do that. Also, I found the Stock strike move to be very satisfying. I don't know if it is because of the crunchy sound it makes when you crack their skulls or if it's just something I learned over the years of playing FPS stuff and charging in for a melee finish. Never got high enough to learn Gut. I look forward to that. Sounds nasty.

I was sorta saving the smuggler for launch but now that I hear about the issues, I'm not so sure. I was looking forward to creating my own Red Dead cowboy in the star wars universe.

As for the stealth mechanic... I can only speak to the Sass side but if it's the same as Shadow, then I can say I believe stealth sucks except to avoid having to clear back spawns. The CC abilities were a much better opening move than using a stealth attack because it meant the least amount of retargetting clicks and least incoming DPS. I'd only use a stealth attack on a weak group that I know I can rip apart in 5 seconds and then only if my CCs were on CD.

I'd like to know when I can catch a missile with the force and send it back to someone. I always liked that idea.
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Re: Star Wars; The Old Republic..

Postby Sord » Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:09 pm

My biggest beef with the game in general though was the lack of xp in warzones and flash points. I mean, if you do Hammer Station at level 20... you're lucky to get 1/4 of a bar of xp. And it's not like the instance is quick and easy... it takes awhile and is pretty challenging. The flash points are probably the most fun part of the game... it sucks that I probably won't even bother with them while leveling b/c the xp to time ratio isn't even close to being productive.


I thought you weren't going to rush through the game? If you're not rushing, why skip out on the "most fun part of the game" ? Enjoy the ride, man.
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Re: Star Wars; The Old Republic..

Postby Kiawah » Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:35 pm

Feaduin wrote:I was sorta saving the smuggler for launch but now that I hear about the issues, I'm not so sure. I was looking forward to creating my own Red Dead cowboy in the star wars universe.

As for the stealth mechanic... I can only speak to the Sass side but if it's the same as Shadow, then I can say I believe stealth sucks except to avoid having to clear back spawns. The CC abilities were a much better opening move than using a stealth attack because it meant the least amount of retargetting clicks and least incoming DPS. I'd only use a stealth attack on a weak group that I know I can rip apart in 5 seconds and then only if my CCs were on CD.


Don't let these early reviews discourage you. From everything I've read the Smuggler is just a late bloomer. They turn into one of the better healers at 50, and they do gain more CC... that's usable from stealth... it just takes awhile to reach that point.

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Re: Star Wars; The Old Republic..

Postby Feaduin » Wed Nov 30, 2011 6:16 pm

Haha I based that doubt on YOUR review. I trust your word on these things so if you say there is a problem with the cover system, then I believe you. Come to think of it... what is the point of the portable cover anyway? When I was playing a trooper, I could still launch most of my attacks right over the enemy shields. I just imagine a chat bubble over their heads that say "These goggles... they do NOTHING!" as they burn alive and keel over.

I don't ignore personal testimony from trusted people. I do ignore all the hype and I pretty much avoided ALL press, videos, and any preview stuff for TOR so that I could experience it for myself totally fresh. I never logged into the SWTOR page unless I had to. The less I knew, the better. So this past beta weekend was really fresh for me and I had no expectations.

Anyone know if we can delete beta build? It's 20 gigs so I don't know if the launch version can just patch over it or if I have to redownload the entire thing. I doubt the game discs will be useful as they'll probably be out of date, not to mention the fact that I prob. won't receive them until well after the start of Early Game Access.
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Re: Star Wars; The Old Republic..

Postby Marcallo » Thu Dec 01, 2011 6:25 am

I read an official looking thread (not 100% sure) that the beta client is going to be patched to release. So you might wanna hang onto those 20 gigs for now.
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...and I'll look down, and whisper "no."

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Re: Star Wars; The Old Republic..

Postby Sord » Fri Dec 02, 2011 7:27 am

I don't have any numbers to back it up but anecdotally I felt I took WAY less damage as I was using cover with my Imperial Agent than I did with the Inquisitor or Trooper without the ability to use cover. I'd get behind cover and shoot down 2-3 mobs in a pack and be pretty well off on health while the other 2, often times I would have to use my recovery ability after every single pack of mobs. I don't know if there is some sort of x% damage reduction baked in while behind cover or something. Assuming there is, having some portable cover will be useful indeed.
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Re: Star Wars; The Old Republic..

Postby Kiawah » Wed Dec 07, 2011 8:55 am


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Re: Star Wars; The Old Republic..

Postby Kiawah » Wed Dec 07, 2011 5:46 pm

Wow, early access starts in only 6 days on Dec 13th!

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Re: Star Wars; The Old Republic..

Postby Munki » Wed Dec 07, 2011 5:58 pm

Totally unrelated, but in a video I stumbled upon from the darth hater link (showing republic armor)...

Hopping on a hover scooter / swoop type thing (aka mount) while in that big fancy coruscant building (where the NPC trainers and shops are) just looks kind of silly. I don't know why, but it's a fancy nice looking building... if I was building managment I'd be fucking pissed some douchebags were driving their personal cars around on my nice carpets / rugs.

I get why they do it gameplay wise... but boy it just looks weird.
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Re: Star Wars; The Old Republic..

Postby Bree » Wed Dec 07, 2011 6:16 pm

I am so torn right now, I don't know what to do. I want to pre-order but still haven't yet. I played during 3 different weekends and I did enjoy myself especially the last one where I finally got my ship and I was able to do some space missions and travel. I don't know how much I will play or get into grouping and Jason definitely will not be playing so it's just me.

I know I shouldn't spend the money and I don't need a monthly subscription right now but I really want to...... /sigh

I also still haven't played Skyrim yet but I feel like I can do that at any time, SW:TOR is only going to release once. :willy_nilly:

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Re: Star Wars; The Old Republic..

Postby Sord » Thu Dec 08, 2011 12:22 am

I like having an active MMO sub because overall it saves me money. These past 6 months without WoW, I've probably spent more on single player games than I have in the past 4 or 5 years. When I'm rocking an MMO, I'm much more likely to pick up that single player game a year later when it is on sale for 50% or less!

I'm itching for the MMO experience again. I honestly don't have much of a social life and WoW let me hang out with friends a lot. Luckily (or unluckily) I keep in touch with Damon fairly regularly but there are others that I don't really see so much outside of games and will have the opportunity to see and spend time with them again in TOR.
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Re: Star Wars; The Old Republic..

Postby Kiawah » Thu Dec 08, 2011 6:57 am

Bree wrote:I am so torn right now, I don't know what to do. I want to pre-order but still haven't yet. I played during 3 different weekends and I did enjoy myself especially the last one where I finally got my ship and I was able to do some space missions and travel. I don't know how much I will play or get into grouping and Jason definitely will not be playing so it's just me.

I know I shouldn't spend the money and I don't need a monthly subscription right now but I really want to...... /sigh

I also still haven't played Skyrim yet but I feel like I can do that at any time, SW:TOR is only going to release once. :willy_nilly:



I personally don't see the harm in waiting a month or two. There's really no reason to pre-order at this point unless you just really, really, really want to change your lightsaber color to yellow.... you won't get much, if any early access (probably) by this point. If you give it a few months you can see how popular TOR actually is going to be. If it flops, then no biggie, you didn't waste your money. If it's WoW 2.0, in terms of popularity and awesomeness, Zeyk may give it a try then :)

I'm kinda like Sord though in that I'm hankering for a new MMO. Both for the social aspects and the dislike of single player games (in terms of their quantity and $$ spent). This one just happens to have lightsabers in it, so it's a perfect fit.

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Re: Star Wars; The Old Republic..

Postby Munki » Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:42 am

I think I may be the only person on the board that isn't really hankering for a new MMO. Between Skyrim and the various Indie Bundles I've recently picked up, I am having a blast with single player games. I also think I'm still a little burnt out on the "WoW Formula". Still I can understand what Bree is saying. One of the things that is the most fun in an MMO is leveling up and expiriencing the content WHILE everyone else is doing the same. The game only launches once. People will only be discovering the content once. Things that were exciting and buzz worthy while you were leveling (ie: Wrathgate cinematic in WoW) are less interesting when everyone has already seen it multiple times and it's kind of progressed to 'yesterdays news'.

Waiting 2 months means your friends are all max level and you probably won't play with them as much until you get to their level. And even then, you will run instances with them and they will know all the strats. People will hand feed you the 'proper way to build your class'... hell you may even be exposed to blatant spoilers on your character story.

I'm sorry that I am not making your decision any easier Bree :( I just know *exactly* where you are coming from, because it's the same thing that made me decide to get the game now, even though I"m really not that excited for it. Because I know in the end the 'discovery phase' is always the most fun for me.

If you want my opinion, get the game now. If you plan to play more socially / casually as opposed to loot oriented / hardcore, then the launch period is the 'magic time'. If what you want out of the game is to hit max level and start raiding quickly, then waiting probably won't matter as much (as it should be easier to get in an established raid quickly after a month or two).
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Re: Star Wars; The Old Republic..

Postby Bree » Thu Dec 08, 2011 1:08 pm

Thanks Damon....... :-P

You hit the nail exactly on the head!! The words Hardcore and Bree would never be caught in the same sentence, LOL. All through beta I didn't group with a single person however if I had any of you guys around I probably would have. I am a creature of habit and don't like making new friends. I don't want any pressure to get up to speed and I get the cliff notes version of everything, that isn't fun to me. I like discovery and like being there when it is new to everyone.

So when I pre-order I will blame you Damon :-o and whenever I get bored with the game or lose interest, I will still have Skyrim all shiny and new to experience.

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Re: Star Wars; The Old Republic..

Postby Munki » Thu Dec 08, 2011 1:18 pm

Haha, I accept and burden that guilt!

I just know that I would personally regret it if I missed that launch period and I bet you would too :) And the good news is, when you get tired and go to Skyrim, well that is one hell of an awesome game waiting for you. And to top it all off, Skyrim will have had all sorts of awesome player made mods and developer patches making it better for you!
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Re: Star Wars; The Old Republic..

Postby Tamayo » Thu Dec 08, 2011 4:38 pm

Super excited to play with Grog again! Almost hereeeeeeeeeee
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Re: Star Wars; The Old Republic..

Postby Sord » Thu Dec 08, 2011 9:14 pm

My whole excitement for the game is basically what Damon described. While in the past I've enjoyed raiding, what really makes me love a game is the leveling at the start. Experiencing all the content and story for the first time. With that being the case, it is also what will make me fall out of love with a game. When I run out of that kind of content, my interest wanes fast. I really liked Cataclysm because they basically revamped the entire low level experience and it was fun to go through it as it was all basically brand new. After hitting 60 on a new toon, it was a boring trudgefest through just to get to the new zones so I could have another new experience with the 80-85 zones. I can sit down and play a game for 12-18 hours a day (ohgod) leveling through new content yet I have a hard time raiding 3 hours 2 nights a week :P
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Re: Star Wars; The Old Republic..

Postby Tamayo » Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:00 pm

Totally agree. Not gonna be loot whoring in this game, that is when WoW started to get really boring and annoying. Glad they also put in easy mode for the dungeons, so those people just playing for storyline purposes can see that stuff, and not have to worry about dealing with raid schedules and loot grinding.
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Re: Star Wars; The Old Republic..

Postby Feaduin » Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:30 pm

Yeah that's my problem with repeating content too. Emotionally, I've done it and moved past it and I hate the feeling I get when I'm 'just gettin through' something.
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