Champions Online - First Impressions

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Re: Champions Online - First Impressions

Postby Sord » Fri Sep 11, 2009 5:33 pm

Right, I just don't need to be saying "Ok, this power heals me for 10 more, its a must have for EVERY TOON I MAKE EVAR!" type deal.
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Re: Champions Online - First Impressions

Postby PopnFresh » Mon Sep 14, 2009 1:28 pm

That's funny, I actually feel like one of the game's bigger weaknesses is they *didn't* put a lot of work into letting you make any kind of hero you want. That's not to say there's no shortage of choices and many viable combinations out there but there are way too many bad powers out there that make it easy to gimp your character. It's less a problem of "HoT X only heals for 5 more per tick than HoT Y" and more an issue of "HoTs X and Y make HoT Z completely useless." But unless you do a level of min/maxing in there, it'll be easy to get stuck with HoT Z because you're not going to know the others exist unless you really are taking the min/max route. And while one HoT might not make a difference, you'll feel it if you happen to pick the wrong offensive ability, because suddenly the game will be significantly harder and there's little you can do about it short of a respec...which is a min/max mentality. I still point to Gadgeteer being the extreme example (at least prepatch, not sure of after); when you're given a choice of pets, one of the two offensive choices is better in every way compared to the other which is considered a waste of time, and if you don't take the melee cone attack (and as a pet class with mostly range abilities, why would you?) you are basically fucked for a while. I got lucky by taking the "right" powers, but I never would've taken them had I not applied the min/max mentality to my choices.

Of course, I'm probably one of the more cynical people playing right now. That sounds odd since I am having fun with the game, but I'm still getting exactly what I expected, and it's only laziness that has kept me from setting up my cancellation to ensure I don't get charged when my freebie time is up. Admittedly, reading that there were only five regions was a big let down, but even before that I was pretty sure I was going to cancel before they billed me (and am also pretty sure I'll resub in the distant future and have fun for another month once they fix their game)
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Re: Champions Online - First Impressions

Postby Marcallo » Mon Sep 14, 2009 7:48 pm

I'm with Derek on this one. There's a LOT to nitpick and if you like nitpicking, which I do, you're going to have a fun time of it. Like yesterday I was on my bad ass duel blade robot and derek was on his weird angel energy something or other. He picked up a citizen quest which is basically a person runs up to you and says "QUICK THERE'S A WAREHOUSE BEING ROBBED" or something of that nature... Here's the catch. You can't share them with your friends and they're timed. I also got the quest 20 minutes later, so we had 10 minutes to finish the quest because of our time discrepancy. That's just poor planning.

Also I think we all have at least 1 or 2 consoles, and a gaming PC. There's a LOT of stuff to play, and subpar isn't going to cut it. I'll go back to champions one day for sure maybe in 6 months. but right now, I'm canceling recurring, will play out the month a few more times and be done. Assassins Creed 2, Bioshock 2, TOR, and especially FFXIII are all on the horizon.
Dog carcass in alley this morning, tire tread on burst stomach. This city is afraid of me. I have seen it's true face. The streets are extended gutters and the gutters are full of blood and when the drains finally scab over, all the vermin will drown. The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the whores and politicians will look up and shout "Save us!"...

...and I'll look down, and whisper "no."

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Re: Champions Online - First Impressions

Postby Ved » Tue Sep 15, 2009 11:09 am

I'd say my complaints are: weirdness with grouping (their quest system is basically solo only), not enough content, and lousy balance between powers. Its a 7/10 game right now and will be an 8/10 once they fix the obvious problems and add lots more content. I can't see going back to coh for my one month super hero fix, so I'd say the game is pretty successful. I love the new travel powers and some of the power animations are fantastic. I think it will be a great console MMO if Microsoft ever figures out what exactly they are going to do there. Their "Champions Store" micropayment bullshit sort of scares me too.
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Re: Champions Online - First Impressions

Postby PopnFresh » Tue Sep 15, 2009 11:35 am

Yeah, the travel powers are a great example both of poor balance and game greatness. The thing that sold me on buying the game was seeing someone in beta doing super jumps with a beast stance. It just looks so good! Swinging is also tons of fun, and teleport I didn't like at first but have grown to love. It just stings ever so slightly when I take a non-flight power, since their ability to fight out of melee range is an advantage other powers just can't match (except maybe teleport since you can escape tough fights, but the buggy projectile/aggro ranges make that less effective than it could be right now).

Microtransactions scare me, too. Not just for this game, but as a whole. WoW has done a good job with just offering administrative services like server transfers, and other things that are more than a typical microtransaction but most often won't be used on a regular basis with everyone. But microtransactions seem to be creeping into domestic MMOs more and more of late, and it's concerning. Though I know it can be frustrating, I much prefer the style of things like vanity pets being rare drops instead of something anyone can buy on a lark with real cash.
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Re: Champions Online - First Impressions

Postby Kiawah » Tue Sep 15, 2009 12:27 pm

Why nitpick and min/max in a game with no content?

So what if you don't do enough damage or heal enough, all you're going to accomplish is getting back to the character select screen faster.

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Re: Champions Online - First Impressions

Postby Marcallo » Tue Sep 15, 2009 1:23 pm

Kiawah wrote:Why nitpick and min/max in a game with no content?

So what if you don't do enough damage or heal enough, all you're going to accomplish is getting back to the character select screen faster.



Not to specifically go against you here because it's you, but I don't understand why you would chime in here. You, as far as I know didn't participate in the beta, or play the game at retail. We're nitpicking because the game has TONS of potential and it'd be nice to see them use their influx of cash from retail to make that potential happen so we can come back to it. It is at it's foundation a good game. Just a matter of what they do with it as to if it will survive the long hall.

Not everything is going to be the next WoW. Warhammer with 3/4 of a million subscribers is a "failure". LOL i'd love to be at that business meeting. "The good news is we've sold through almost a million copies in 1 month.... the bad news is we have terrible press.".
Dog carcass in alley this morning, tire tread on burst stomach. This city is afraid of me. I have seen it's true face. The streets are extended gutters and the gutters are full of blood and when the drains finally scab over, all the vermin will drown. The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the whores and politicians will look up and shout "Save us!"...

...and I'll look down, and whisper "no."

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Re: Champions Online - First Impressions

Postby Munki » Tue Sep 15, 2009 1:30 pm

Kiawah wrote:Why nitpick and min/max in a game with no content?

So what if you don't do enough damage or heal enough, all you're going to accomplish is getting back to the character select screen faster.


The easy answer to this is that some people find the journey of 1-40 rewarding. God knows the CoH crowd did, since there was nothing to do AT 40. Min / Maxing (at least to the degree I do it in CO, which is probably more so than most, but far less than I would do in wow) is just part of the fun for me. I never expected CO (or CoH/V either) to be a long term MMO, and I think few here do either. Sure, once you hit 40 you may not have a lot to do. Supposedly there are more lairs / raids / dailies to do at cap than in CoH, but I highly doubt it's enough to challenge the end game other MMO's have these days. That doesn't bother me though, since A) I doubt I ever hit the cap and B) if I do hit the cap, it would be a good time to cancel. I know I'll reactivate sometime again down the line, and I'll probably do a totally brand new character. Such is the cycle of life I find myself in with Cryptic's MMOs.
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Re: Champions Online - First Impressions

Postby PopnFresh » Tue Sep 15, 2009 2:02 pm

Kiawah wrote:Why nitpick and min/max in a game with no content?

So what if you don't do enough damage or heal enough, all you're going to accomplish is getting back to the character select screen faster.


Tough crowd. *I* thought it was funny.
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Re: Champions Online - First Impressions

Postby Sord » Tue Sep 15, 2009 4:19 pm

I'm one of the kinds that actually enjoys leveling a character up. To me, low level content isn't just there to get you to the end of the game. Its a big part of the game and I like utilizing all of it. I guess thats why I found playing a draenei and blood elf to 20 a lot of fun cause it was a new leveling experience. I know for a fact I will rekindle my love with WoW when I can go through brand new leveling content.

And thus my current enjoyment with CO. Its all new content to me. Like others, it probably wont be a long term game but I will enjoy the ride while I play it. The mechanics aren't terribly buggy, its mostly solo friendly. Grouping is buggy but still fun. I would have stuck with WAR longer if the game didn't continually crash on me.

I guess my point is end game content isn't the only thing to consider when playing a game. At least not for me.
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Re: Champions Online - First Impressions

Postby Kiawah » Wed Sep 16, 2009 9:01 am

It just seems like an oxymoron to me to worry about min/max'ing when all you're doing is leveling. I'm not knocking people's likes/dislikes but really, if you're just playing an MMO to level then quit or with little concern about the end game, why even play an MMO? You'd be better off just sticking to a normal RPG at that point, as it doesn't have a subscription fee.

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Re: Champions Online - First Impressions

Postby Marcallo » Wed Sep 16, 2009 10:24 am

Kiawah wrote:It just seems like an oxymoron to me to worry about min/max'ing when all you're doing is leveling. I'm not knocking people's likes/dislikes but really, if you're just playing an MMO to level then quit or with little concern about the end game, why even play an MMO? You'd be better off just sticking to a normal RPG at that point, as it doesn't have a subscription fee.



That's a valid point. But what if you're having fun WHILE leveling? What if the actual game is the leveling and getting to play with friends? I realize x-box live can have the very same experience. For example you can start a new game of RE:5 and play co-op with a friend. But getting to play with the various "super-hero" powers isn't something you get very often. Even games like X-Men Origins:Wolverine and Batman while 8-10/10 games in my book don't let you create anything on your own. That's the best part of CoH and Champions, creating your characters concept. In CoH it was nearly impossible to gimp yourself, I'm hoping champions fixes its shit so I can come back and want to level again. This time even further.
Dog carcass in alley this morning, tire tread on burst stomach. This city is afraid of me. I have seen it's true face. The streets are extended gutters and the gutters are full of blood and when the drains finally scab over, all the vermin will drown. The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the whores and politicians will look up and shout "Save us!"...

...and I'll look down, and whisper "no."

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Re: Champions Online - First Impressions

Postby PopnFresh » Wed Sep 16, 2009 11:40 am

Yeah, I can largely echo Marcallo with that. I bought the game expecting full well to potentially never pay a monthly fee for it, but that's because I actually really enjoy leveling and the MMO style of play. I've spent at least as much time in Champions over the last two and a half weeks - out of the character creation screen! - as I have in most any other game I've bought since Fallout 3/WotLK. So I consider that worth my price of admission, even if I don't see much end game play or long term replayability.

And while it's true that min/maxing before the end game seems futile, CO lends itself well to it. Partially because there are so many terrible options, but also because your character's stats have a large enough range even in the relatively early-mid game to make a difference, and a lot of stats are valuable across all classes. So as a DPS class, even at level 10, you can build around Dexterity and Ego, which controls crit chance and crit damage, respectively, or you can build around having a high energy pool and fast energy recharge to keep your more damaging attacks go in a long chain instead of needing to use your energy builder frequently, or some people attempt to build around more exotic stats while using the limited (but stacked) gear slots to fill out other stats. I think it's actually part of their eventual downfall, because despite the number of power choices, things are already becoming somewhat "cookie cutter," and if the stats continue to increase dramatically, then they're either going to have very strict cookie cutter builds, or a helluva time balancing content to stay both challenging and doable no matter what stat build out your party has. But that's probably the cynic in me coming out of the closet again. Or going back in the closet? I'm not sure if you can be both gay and cynical.

But either way, having so many potentially useful stats makes the fun min/maxing doable even at lower levels with noticeable results.
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Re: Champions Online - First Impressions

Postby Sord » Wed Sep 16, 2009 12:11 pm

Kiawah wrote:It just seems like an oxymoron to me to worry about min/max'ing when all you're doing is leveling. I'm not knocking people's likes/dislikes but really, if you're just playing an MMO to level then quit or with little concern about the end game, why even play an MMO? You'd be better off just sticking to a normal RPG at that point, as it doesn't have a subscription fee.


For me its mainly just habit. I've been doing it in WoW for so many years, it just naturally comes to you. Its a hard habit to break. I find myself saving different items for different possible builds but so far I haven't needed any of them. Thus I eventually talk myself into selling all that crap and saving bag space.
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Re: Champions Online - First Impressions

Postby Munki » Wed Sep 16, 2009 2:50 pm

If there was an offline RPG with the ability to create your superhero from a large pool of superpowers like CO has? I'd be playing it in a heartbeat. The reality though, there is nothing like that :( Which is why I feel the way I do about CO, even though it's an MMO.

-Edit: I know there was a semi RPG / RTS game, Freedom Force awhile back, and I tried to get in to that. In the end though, I just couldn't get in to that game :(
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Re: Champions Online - First Impressions

Postby Kyecsrai » Wed Sep 16, 2009 3:12 pm

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