Champions Online - First Impressions

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Re: Champions Online - First Impressions

Postby Marcallo » Tue Sep 01, 2009 7:03 pm

They chose Retcon because it's a word SPECIFICALLY used in the comic book world, no? Like literally that's how they refer to respeccing, "retconning". I played a little bit more tonight, I'm GOING to get my archer up to milennium city by the weekend just to say I did it and give the game a full fair chance. Her arrow AOE is fucked up though, literally it has a wider spread than it has range. So like I'll hit the 3 guys in front of me and then 10 more guys outside my field of vision. And it's not like CoH you can't just fly away. Well you can, slowly, you won't make it though. EVERYTHING has a ranged attack.
Dog carcass in alley this morning, tire tread on burst stomach. This city is afraid of me. I have seen it's true face. The streets are extended gutters and the gutters are full of blood and when the drains finally scab over, all the vermin will drown. The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the whores and politicians will look up and shout "Save us!"...

...and I'll look down, and whisper "no."

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Re: Champions Online - First Impressions

Postby Munki » Tue Sep 01, 2009 8:37 pm

Poo, that's too bad. I made Primate and got to level 5 and got Swinging for my travel power. But I really want to get acobatics instead. Is it just a better idea to redo the tutorial again (since it won't take too long) insead of try and redo my powers?

I believe I am @Pipkin

So far it's Primate@Pipkin and Jefferson Twilight@Pipkin.

PS, the new Primate looks awesome. THe beast stance is just uber as heck.
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Re: Champions Online - First Impressions

Postby Sord » Tue Sep 01, 2009 11:46 pm

I've still got a lot to learn about the mechanics and little nuances (like I didn't know you could charge up one of your abilities to do more damage by holding down the hotkey for a few seconds...). So far I like my ice abilities. I know have this quest to specialize in either Mysticism, Science or Arms. I have no idea which I should take or even what it means. I think its for the crafting but I'm too tired to read up on it right now.

I am already enjoying it as much as I enjoyed CoX when I first played it, maybe a little more. That already makes it worth the price of purchase. Its different enough to be its own game but still familiar.
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Re: Champions Online - First Impressions

Postby Marcallo » Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:54 am

Hmm, I have some hellfire empire people playing as well maybe I'll look to put together a little super group of 10 joining my two favorite guilds together. I'll talk to *HFE*Ajib later and see if he'd be interested. Only 4 of them are playing. The COH guys jumped ship to try it out.
Dog carcass in alley this morning, tire tread on burst stomach. This city is afraid of me. I have seen it's true face. The streets are extended gutters and the gutters are full of blood and when the drains finally scab over, all the vermin will drown. The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the whores and politicians will look up and shout "Save us!"...

...and I'll look down, and whisper "no."

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Re: Champions Online - First Impressions

Postby Munki » Wed Sep 02, 2009 9:05 am

Nicole is pretty adamant (she's not playing right now, but she intends to soon after we settle in to the new place) about remaking the League of Grog. So the HFE guys are more than welcome to join LoG, but nicole really wants to have that be the guild. Just an FYI.
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Re: Champions Online - First Impressions

Postby Marcallo » Wed Sep 02, 2009 9:29 am

somehow... I don't think they'd go for that. They might go for A mixing of names, but hellfire would need to be in it soemwhere. For this game I'll just stick with youg uys if I end up staying with it. :D It's nice that there's no servers though because I can play with ALL my friends this time without having to pick. I like that.
Dog carcass in alley this morning, tire tread on burst stomach. This city is afraid of me. I have seen it's true face. The streets are extended gutters and the gutters are full of blood and when the drains finally scab over, all the vermin will drown. The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the whores and politicians will look up and shout "Save us!"...

...and I'll look down, and whisper "no."

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Re: Champions Online - First Impressions

Postby PopnFresh » Wed Sep 02, 2009 10:13 am

There's just too much demand for Marcallo these days.
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Re: Champions Online - First Impressions

Postby Marcallo » Wed Sep 02, 2009 10:17 am

Thanks bro... I feel the love. It's not that there's demand for me, it's that I want to play with everyone I know. And thankfully with this system.. I can. :D
Dog carcass in alley this morning, tire tread on burst stomach. This city is afraid of me. I have seen it's true face. The streets are extended gutters and the gutters are full of blood and when the drains finally scab over, all the vermin will drown. The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the whores and politicians will look up and shout "Save us!"...

...and I'll look down, and whisper "no."

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Re: Champions Online - First Impressions

Postby Munki » Wed Sep 02, 2009 10:43 am

So now that I've had some time to play I'll give my impressions.

Liked
Character Creation is, as expected, awesome. I think I made a grand total of 4 guys last night. The new Primate is sweet, I like him way more than the original CoH Primate. The stances and 'mood' for your guys is a great touch, the cell shaded look is great, and there are a shit ton of options to create your guy.

Combat in general is fantastic, and fast paced / fun. I was frustrated at first, but once I figured out that your Energy Building power is actually a toggle / auto attack, the game got way better. I also like that using your Energy builder when you are at range is actually a form of a taunt that makes the enemy run to you as well. While it is a bit easier to take them down if you have range, it makes the game playable if you don't.

Power selection is huge and awesome. It is a bit complex at first, but so far all I've done is fill out my character concept. I'm not really looking at what's good, and stuff like that. Primate is a bruiser with energy gauntlets (like in CoH)... My abilities so far represent that. It makes picking powers easy for the most part. Also the fact that you can play around in the Powerhouse and not be locked to a power until you leave is great. It doesn't work out for all the powers really, but most of them you can really test it out well.

Open missions are also awesome, as they were in Warhammer. I feel that WAR's give a bit more reward for the people who finish at the top than CO does, but I've also found the 2 missions I found are soloable. In WAR, very few were soloable, which meant if you showed up and it was late / nobody was around, you weren't gonna finish that mission. So I guess it's a mixed bag.

Dislike
Ground Based travel powers are, IMO, broken. The way the game works, if you get in combat your travel power speed is greatly diminished (think, getting dazed in wow). The problem with this comes in how the travel powers work. I'm bounding across the landscape with Super Jump on. I land near a pack of enemies. I die if the enemies are a big enough pack. The reason for this? As I'm landing, I get in combat before I hit the ground (these are with enemies conning a level lower than me). That makes me take fall damage from my jump. So I start off taking about 1/4 to 1/5 of my health in damage. Then as I slowly try and bound away with my gimped speed, I get pelted with ranged attacks. I rarely make it out of that situation alive.

If all the powers shared that sort of limitation, it would be frustrating I think, but fair. But the reality is, the air based powers (flight, swinging), Teleport, and Digging don't have that issue. I'm assuming Super Speed and Acrobatics has the issue just like Jumping, minus the fall damage part. It would be as if Cats ran slower than Horses in wow, yet still cost the same. Yea yea, I could take flight or something like that, but this game is about your character concepts. Primate isn't a flier!

Anyway, I'm sure that the devs will do something about that, it's just a tad frustrating at the moment. I think in general Agro radius should be lowered for Travel Powers (or at the very least, for the ground based ones). I'm fine with Jumping taking fall damage when they land, although I think it shouldn't be so much damage when you get in combat.

Crafting seems basic but also incredibly confusing at first. In short it feels like Enchanting in WoW. I've gotten a handle on it after about 30 minutes of mucking about with it though. I think I chose the wrong one though (I picked Arms)... Thankfully I haven't progressed far in it, and you can easily switch to another, you just start from crafting level 1. I'll have to look tonight at it a bit more.

Also, I unlocked Builds / Roles for my guy at level 8. I am not really sure what each means (Sentinal is Tank, Avenger is DPS I know) or what advantages it gives me. It looks like it mucks with how fast my energy regenerates. I'll have to look in to this some, but the in game stuff doesn't seem to have a tutorial to help you with this new concept when you unlock it. I'm putting it here as a dislike, only because of that. The general concept of being able to tailor if you are a healer / tank / dps like that is a good one, I just kind of don't know how it works right now.

Conclusion
The game definitely feels rough. In this age of polished releases, this game feels more like WAR did at launch. A lot of great ideas, but definitely rough around the edges. They are still balancing / tweaking things, and thankfully had a patch last night to drastically lower respec costs. It basically feels like we all expected, CoH 2.0. The lack of instances haven't bothered me yet, and I had a blast last night.

I can see myself sticking with the game for a bit, at least as long as a typical CoH stint (could easily be 1-2 months, possibly up to 3 or 4 depending on how things go).
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Re: Champions Online - First Impressions

Postby Windigo » Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:10 am

And just think, when you hit max level, you can. . . make another character. Ok, so I'm just assuming with that one, but it was my (and most people's, I'm sure) beef with CoX that the end game was useless. Hamidon raids and one repeatable story arc of any difficulty was the only thing they had, POST release of CoV, even. What sort of character advancement does CO offer once you hit the max level?

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Re: Champions Online - First Impressions

Postby Marcallo » Thu Sep 03, 2009 5:26 am

Supposedly there's raid content and high end story archs. Can't say if it's true or not, but I heard they will be adding max level content consistantly enough to keep players happy. Also in the past couple years CoX added a bunch of end-game content in the form of repeatable story archs that drop recipes for unique enhancements. Supposedly they're fun I only ever played through one and it wasn't bad.
Dog carcass in alley this morning, tire tread on burst stomach. This city is afraid of me. I have seen it's true face. The streets are extended gutters and the gutters are full of blood and when the drains finally scab over, all the vermin will drown. The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the whores and politicians will look up and shout "Save us!"...

...and I'll look down, and whisper "no."

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Re: Champions Online - First Impressions

Postby Sord » Thu Sep 03, 2009 11:36 am

I imagine there will be quite a ton of unlockable stuff such as recipes, costume replacements, achievements, etc for the end game chasers. Shit, the amount of stuff at level 10 has my head spinning, compared to being level 10 in CoV. I'm not going to come out and say it will be the greatest thing ever but I can already tell that there will be way more things to do end game in CO than there ever was in CoV.
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Re: Champions Online - First Impressions

Postby Ved » Thu Sep 03, 2009 11:57 am

I had a blast playing last night, its a fun game I especially like the variety of travel powers and the insane amount you can customize your character. I have the sinking feeling I gimped myself with my power choices on my first character (holdout shot and rocket launcher) but I imagine it will even out eventually. New rule of thumb is to take powers I'm not totally sure on LAST, so they are cheaper to respec. Also, I made my interface scale bigger so I could read the text etc. at a higher resolution. Well, this fucks up the character creation interface so that certain options disappear entirely, but you can fix it by going back to default interface size. I was also a bit disappointed some of the basic animations are recycled between power sets.
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Re: Champions Online - First Impressions

Postby PopnFresh » Thu Sep 03, 2009 12:05 pm

I was playing one of my characters in the tutorial last night, a power armor guy, and even after a couple levels never had enough energy to get more than about a 2/3 charge on my charge power. The damage does balance out (a 2/3 charge was a one hit kill on trash), but that's asinine for a new player to have to deal with, especially when you only have the two powers available. Obviously that's not some major issue or anything, I'm not ranting and raving about it, it's just disappointing to see something so obvious be neglected, and I'm reminded about it every time I enter combat. And it's a disconcerting thing to run into so early on; I was already only cautiously optimistic about Cryptic's ability to balance a game before, and I keep seeing little things that chip away at that optimism.

That's not to say the game isn't fun. Damon summed it up, it feels just like what I would expect from COH2 and the little time I've played I have largely enjoyed. It's different from MMOs I've played recently and is Diablo-style unadulterated fun. I just keep getting reminded of things that were niggling issues in COH that made it such a casual "not worth a regular monthly fee" game.
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Re: Champions Online - First Impressions

Postby Marcallo » Thu Sep 03, 2009 2:34 pm

There are some powers in sets that you can't use unless you totally charge your blue bar. When I played a sorc in the Beta test there was a power that made 3 exploding sigils. Even with a full blue bar I couldn't use it. So they have some balancing to do in that area.
Dog carcass in alley this morning, tire tread on burst stomach. This city is afraid of me. I have seen it's true face. The streets are extended gutters and the gutters are full of blood and when the drains finally scab over, all the vermin will drown. The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the whores and politicians will look up and shout "Save us!"...

...and I'll look down, and whisper "no."

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Re: Champions Online - First Impressions

Postby Sidonia » Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:07 pm

I've been playing this as well, since the middle of August or so. I've enjoyed it about as much as I enjoyed CoX.. It's nice for a little distraction from time to time. I supposed it'd be more fun if you have a SuperGroup of people to play with.

Supposedly there are 5 man instance type dealies in the late 20s up through 40. Lairs or some such for Villians.

The Retcon/Respec stupid prices were a bug, they were never supposed to be that high and I think they've said they fixed it. I do agree that just limiting to 10 kinda bites and hopefully they'll add some way to do a total respec, not that making a new character is terribly difficult. Hell, some fuckers got to level 40 within the Headstart time frame. I think it wasn't even 2 days before someone was 40, but I think they recently made an XP change or something.

As for the stats and confusion.. I don't understand where the confusion is myself. The tooltips tell you exactly what everything does.

Strength affects Knockbacks and your ability to escape out of Tangible Holds
Dexterity affects your Critical Strike CHANCE and affect of Stealth powers.
Intelligence affects the Cost of Powers, their Cooldowns, and ability to see Stealthed people.
Endurance affects your MAXIMUM Energy.
Recovery affects where your Equilibrium point is and how much Energy you get out of your Energy Builder (only really useful for the Equilibrium point.. All the energy builders are a % of your Energy, and so far increasing Endurance yields more Energy per attack than if you raised Recovery instead since you have a greater Maximum)
Ego affects the Bonus Damage of your Critical strikes and your ability to escape out of Intangible Holds.
Constitution affects your Maximum Hitpoints.
Presence affects your Healing abilities as well as your ability to either Generate Threat in the Defensive stance or Reduce Threat generated in Offensive or Support stances. (Generally considered pretty worthless unless you like to play strictly as a Healer)

That is what stats, taken on their own, do individually. Some Powers scale with certain Stats. For instance, Ice Form has two components to it that scale with two different stats. Ice form grants increased Elemental (Ice, Fire, and something else, not Electricity oddly) damage that scales with Endurance. The more endurance you have, the more bonus damage you get out of Ice Form. It also will reduce the damage you take from Ice Attacks and to a lesser degree other elemental attacks based on your Dexterity. The more Dex you have, the more damage reduced to those damage types. Even if you have never increased Dex or Endurance, you still get some kind of bonus in Ice Form, it just wouldn't' be as much if you had increased those two a lot, but it wouldn't be 0 either. I can't say as I know what the difference would be between someone who did and didn't.

For another example, Fire Form does almost the same thing, except the Damage part scales off Presence, and the Damage Reduction scales off Recovery. Electric form scales off Endurance and Recovery, Ego Form scales off Endurance and Constitution... etc etc.

The damage you deal is based off the two Super Stats you pick. You could pick Intelligence and Presence, someone else could do Strength and Ego, and for the most part, the increased damage both get would be the same assuming they stack those two the same way, not taking into account things like Passive Damage forms or Clickie powers.

Outside of Passive Damage Forms, and clickie powers that give a short burst of damage potential increase, the only other way is through Critical Strikes. The only way to make Critical Strikes worth while is if you have Dex and Ego. You need Dexterity to be able to Crit more often, but the damage multiplier is dependent on Ego. If you have a shit ton of Dex and can crit 80% of the time, but have never touched Ego and your multiplier is like 0.01, it's not really going to matter. You could also have a shit ton of Ego and have a crit severity thing of 10.00, but have a 0% crit chance, that's not going to do you any good either. Basically all Crits do is for burst damage, but generally if you're focusing on Dex and Ego, you probably aren't going to have as much Health as someone else, or as much Energy as someone else.

If you want to see if any power you are interested in taking is affected by a stat, just look at them. Hit P to bring up the Powers Window, hit the Show All Powers in the lower Right, make sure the filter drop down box is set to show even Unavailable powers, and browse through them all and read the descriptions.

By and large, I don't think you can totally gimp a character or anything outside of like only ever taking your energy builder and one attack and a bunch of passive stuff for the next 12 power picks... Min/Maxers will try to take powers and stack stats that work together, but if someone wanted to play a thematic character or just wants to play with certain powers, it should work out fine all the same.

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Re: Champions Online - First Impressions

Postby Munki » Thu Sep 03, 2009 6:24 pm

To follow up on Sid's thing about Super Groups, and Marcallo's comment above, we'll want to try and look in to forming League of Grog again soonish, if people are interested. I'm not fully sure how many people you need, how much it costs, or how to do it (I bet it's something you do in Millennium City, which most of us aren't at yet), but it would be nice to have sooner rather than later.

Once we know what we have to do, maybe we can try and set up a time for everyone to be online to try and get the supergroup made.
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Re: Champions Online - First Impressions

Postby Marcallo » Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:47 pm

I think free and like 5 people. Also no one on the HFE forums answered me if they'd be interested in joining. I think I insulted them. LOL
Dog carcass in alley this morning, tire tread on burst stomach. This city is afraid of me. I have seen it's true face. The streets are extended gutters and the gutters are full of blood and when the drains finally scab over, all the vermin will drown. The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the whores and politicians will look up and shout "Save us!"...

...and I'll look down, and whisper "no."

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Re: Champions Online - First Impressions

Postby Lightfeather » Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:51 pm

Well, considering that they were too stuck up to want to help me trade pets in WoW it doesn't surprise me that they would want to keep to themselves. I didn't expect anything more.

I'm also not sure I even want to play anymore for various reasons so it's no skin off my nose.
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Re: Champions Online - First Impressions

Postby Marcallo » Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:09 pm

Lightfeather wrote:Well, considering that they were too stuck up to want to help me trade pets in WoW it doesn't surprise me that they would want to keep to themselves. I didn't expect anything more.

I'm also not sure I even want to play anymore for various reasons so it's no skin off my nose.




It's not "stuckup" per say. Just a hard group to get in with. They just have a unique personality set and are real careful who they let into their fold. I'm one of the VERY few members who is part of several gaming groups. It's frowned upon, I also don't care. :D As it turns out the few that are playing are hooked in with another end game guild that jumped ship to CO at least temporarily. I was offered a spot but declined for now since I don't want to embrace. "UBER" mentality for a COH lookalike.

And how come you don't wanna play? It's a fun game I think you'd like it. You can make a sexy gadget chick who heals AND kicks ass. :D
Dog carcass in alley this morning, tire tread on burst stomach. This city is afraid of me. I have seen it's true face. The streets are extended gutters and the gutters are full of blood and when the drains finally scab over, all the vermin will drown. The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the whores and politicians will look up and shout "Save us!"...

...and I'll look down, and whisper "no."

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Re: Champions Online - First Impressions

Postby Sord » Fri Sep 11, 2009 6:48 am

I think I'm approaching this game in the wrong way.

Myself and the Munkinuts chit chat back and forth about powers lately (especially about the telekenesis power set since we both just created one) and of course that gets me thinking about oooohhh what power should I work on next, whats going to be best, etc etc.

From a min/max point of view, I guess that approach goes well. However, I think the creators of this game went through a lot of trouble for people to create basically any hero you want. I need to actually sit down and think of the kind of stuff I want rather than the stuff that may put out the best numbers. Too many hours of min/maxing in wow I guess!

In the end it probably wont matter as long as you pick the proper stats that benefit your power sets/role/build (like not stacking intelligence for a melee character, for example. Though if you have a melee/caster hybrid, maybe intelligence wouldn't be a bad investment for certain builds, etc).

I need the mindset of "this is the kind of hero I want to play" rather than "this is the hero thats going to put out the best numbers"
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Re: Champions Online - First Impressions

Postby Lightfeather » Fri Sep 11, 2009 11:12 am

Marcallo wrote:And how come you don't wanna play? It's a fun game I think you'd like it. You can make a sexy gadget chick who heals AND kicks ass. :D


It's dumb but I'm an MMO addict and I know it so I kinda wanted to stay away from all MMO style games until after all this house stuff is done and that won't happen till at least the end of october, then it's time to start getting ready to enjoy the holidays.

The thing is, I had asked Damon if he'd be willing to wait with me, because he's kind of an addict too and with everything that needs to be done I didn't want the added roll of "nag" to beg him to stop playing the game while we're going through all this bullshit. Also, I kinda wanted us to start playing at the same time so when I did start playing he didn't already have 20 characters and know everything about the game already.

He couldn't wait and I was bitter for a while but I don't care anymore. He'll probably be burnt out of it by the time I'm ready to sit down and dig into an MMO again. Lame but them's the breaks.
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Re: Champions Online - First Impressions

Postby Kyecsrai » Fri Sep 11, 2009 12:21 pm

Sordfische wrote:I need the mindset of "this is the kind of hero I want to play" rather than "this is the hero thats going to put out the best numbers"


WRONG.

Bigger numbers means you're having more fun.
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Re: Champions Online - First Impressions

Postby Marcallo » Fri Sep 11, 2009 3:01 pm

I haven't played since the patch, but I heard my sonic arrows were nerfed!!! I'm going to be having less fun now. :(
Dog carcass in alley this morning, tire tread on burst stomach. This city is afraid of me. I have seen it's true face. The streets are extended gutters and the gutters are full of blood and when the drains finally scab over, all the vermin will drown. The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the whores and politicians will look up and shout "Save us!"...

...and I'll look down, and whisper "no."

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Re: Champions Online - First Impressions

Postby Munki » Fri Sep 11, 2009 5:11 pm

Sord wrote:I think I'm approaching this game in the wrong way.

Myself and the Munkinuts chit chat back and forth about powers lately (especially about the telekenesis power set since we both just created one) and of course that gets me thinking about oooohhh what power should I work on next, whats going to be best, etc etc.

From a min/max point of view, I guess that approach goes well. However, I think the creators of this game went through a lot of trouble for people to create basically any hero you want. I need to actually sit down and think of the kind of stuff I want rather than the stuff that may put out the best numbers. Too many hours of min/maxing in wow I guess!

In the end it probably wont matter as long as you pick the proper stats that benefit your power sets/role/build (like not stacking intelligence for a melee character, for example. Though if you have a melee/caster hybrid, maybe intelligence wouldn't be a bad investment for certain builds, etc).

I need the mindset of "this is the kind of hero I want to play" rather than "this is the hero thats going to put out the best numbers"


I think this is right, to a degree. I still think it's not too hard to make a fun character concept that is playable, but still following some basic 'rules' for building a successful character. Examples: If you want to be successful you need to pick up at least one each of the following; Offensive or Defensive Passive (pick one to support the type of role you want... glass cannon or survivor), Block Power, and Self Heal. Also, some sort of CC will help massively. And finally, with the current state of the game you'll want at least one form of AoE damage. However, amongst that list, you have a large number of Offensive or Defensive passives to pick from (sure some are better than others at this point, but that's Min / Max territory), there is a block power from many different trees in different styles, there are a fair number of self healing / healing spells or passives, there are a ton of CC's, and a lot of AoE/Cones. You should be able to dream up and fit most concepts doing this.
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