Dungeons and Dragons 4th Edition

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Dungeons and Dragons 4th Edition

Postby skuppy » Thu Aug 16, 2007 11:54 am

Dungeons & Dragons(R) Flashes 4-ward at Gen Con

RENTON, Wash.-(Business Wire)-August 16, 2007 - Whether you storm a mad wizard's tower every week or haven't delved into a dungeon since you had a mullet and a mean pair of parachute pants, one thing is certain, millions of D&D(R) players worldwide have anticipated the coming of 4th Edition for many years. Today Wizards of the Coast confirms that the new edition will launch in May 2008 with the release of the D&D Player's Handbook(R). A pop culture icon, DUNGEONS & DRAGONS is the #1 tabletop roleplaying game in the world and is revered by legions of gamers of all ages.

The 4th Edition DUNGEONS & DRAGONS game includes elements familiar to current D&D players, including illustrated rulebooks and pre-painted plastic miniatures. Also releasing next year will be new Web-based tools and online community forums through the brand new DUNGEONS & DRAGONS Insider (D&D Insider(TM)) digital offering. D&D Insider lowers the barriers of entry for new players while simultaneously offering the depth of play that appeals to veteran players.

The 4th Edition rules emphasize faster game play, offer exciting new character options, and reduce the amount of "prep time" needed to run the game. D&D Insider includes a character creator that lets players design and equip their D&D characters, dungeon- and adventure-building tools for Dungeon Masters, online magazine content, and a digital game table that lets you play 24/7 on the Internet — the perfect option for anyone who can't find time to get together.

"WeI've been gathering player feedback for eight years," said Bill Slavicsek, R&D director of roleplaying and miniatures games at Wizards of the Coast. "Fourth Edition streamlines parts of the D&D game that are too complex while enhancing the overall play experience. At its heart, it's still a tabletop game experience. However, D&D Insider makes it easier for players to create characters, run their games, and interact with the rest of the D&D community."

Wizards of the Coast will release two 4th Edition preview books in December and January — Wizards Presents: Classes and Races(TM) and Wizards Presents: Worlds and Monsters(TM). The first live demos of 4th Edition will happen at the D&D EXPERIENCE(TM) gaming convention in Washington, D.C., in February 2008. The full scope of 4th Edition books, miniatures, and adventures will be available in the spring and summer of 2008.

Since its first release in 1974, the fantasy roleplaying game DUNGEONS & DRAGONS has taken millions of players on imaginary adventures of epic scale. Today, D&D is universally regarded as the original game that created the roleplaying game category, and the inspiration for generations of game designers. D&D is enjoyed by millions of players worldwide, while countless more remember it with fond nostalgia. For more information, visit our digital newsroom at www.wizards.com/gencon2007.

Wizards of the Coast, Inc., a subsidiary of Hasbro, Inc. (NYSE:HAS), is a worldwide leader in the trading card game and tabletop roleplaying game categories, and a leading developer and publisher of game-based entertainment products. Wizards is also a publisher of fantasy series fiction with numerous New York Times bestsellers. Dungeons & Dragons, D&D, Player's Handbook, Dungeons & Dragons Insider, D&D Insider, Wizards Presents: Classes and Races, Wizards Presents: Worlds and Monsters, and D&D Experience are trademarks of Wizards of the Coast in the U.S.A. and other countries. (C) 2007 Wizards


http://digital50.com/news/items/BW/2001 ... n-con.html

Curious if there are any active players currently in a campaign that would want to purchase yet another set of source books. I did like the balances that were made in 3.0 to 3.5, mostly the spell tweaks and some needed class adjustments. I just hope that the Complete series is backwards compatible with 3.5. We're playing a 3.0 Rogukan (Legend of the Five Rings) campaign and it has been difficult integrating some of the 3.0 classes with 3.5 books.
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Postby OverloadUT » Thu Aug 16, 2007 4:09 pm

BAH! We waited like... 20 years between 2nd and 3rd editions; it should be like that again!

My group currently plays D20 Modern which I actually enjoy a lot more than D&D.
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Postby Metostopholes » Thu Aug 16, 2007 4:16 pm

My group has two D&D campaigns running, one 2nd edition, one 3.5, and I highly doubt we'll be upgrading. Coldfyre's the DM though; it's his call.

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Postby Marcallo » Fri Aug 17, 2007 5:10 am

I play D&D Infrequently enough that I will NOT be buying new books to upgrade again. At a quick count I probably have 30-40 3.5 books on my shelf. And on a hidden shelf below another of that amount of 2.0 books. Enough is enough. Especially after only what, 5 years?
Dog carcass in alley this morning, tire tread on burst stomach. This city is afraid of me. I have seen it's true face. The streets are extended gutters and the gutters are full of blood and when the drains finally scab over, all the vermin will drown. The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the whores and politicians will look up and shout "Save us!"...

...and I'll look down, and whisper "no."

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Postby skuppy » Fri Aug 17, 2007 6:02 pm

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Postby Marcallo » Mon Dec 10, 2007 4:00 pm

Just a little bump for this. Amazon.com supposedly has a pretty good offer on this. I haven't checked it out yet because I'm afraid I'll impulsively buy it. However I'm told they are bringing back Dragonlance as a campaign setting, that alone may get me to invest in a core set at the very least. My friend said he may be willing to run a Dragonlance campaign I'm pretty much definately in if he does it. Dragonlance was always my favorite, even post war of souls it's still an amazing world.


Also I picked up a copy of Grand History of the Realms last week. And in the future as in when 4E is released, FR is getting MAJORLY shaken up. Mystra2.0 is going to be killed and magic is going to be shattered in some way. Elminster will FINALLY be dead. That alone is exciting stuff. I'm hoping 300 years manages to kill off all the major characters and let them start fresh, that's one world where stagnate is just an understatement.
Dog carcass in alley this morning, tire tread on burst stomach. This city is afraid of me. I have seen it's true face. The streets are extended gutters and the gutters are full of blood and when the drains finally scab over, all the vermin will drown. The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the whores and politicians will look up and shout "Save us!"...

...and I'll look down, and whisper "no."

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Postby Sord » Tue Dec 11, 2007 1:18 am

Hmm I'm not sure what to think of a change to Forgotten Realms. It IS stagnate currently but the past 20 or so years of timeline hold all my favorite stories. Drizzt would still be alive as long as Salvatore doesn't kill him off (and why would he? That drow is a cash cow) while everyone else in the series would probably be long dust. Also, I can't just see him jumping HIS story up that far but it would be interesting for sure to follow along and find out. Chances are he'd just continue writing stories in the "present" and ignore the new setting but you never know.

Mystra getting removed somehow would really throw a lot of things topsy turvy and make for an interesting change of events. Elminster and the seven sisters are only powerful because of her. Kelemvor would probably have some of his feelings resurface and may do something rash, Cyric will make a new appearance. Time of Troubles 2? I'd hit that.
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Postby Waits » Tue Jul 15, 2008 10:24 am

Dusting off this thread to say that the 4th Edition of the game is real good and easily the strongest version since 2nd edition (obviously that's an opinionated statement).

The game is cleaner, easier yet at the same time far deeper than anything I've experienced with 3rd or 3.5. Once the players get involved in their first combat they will see how much tactics, working together and the overall balance of the new set of rules work.

These rules have pulled me out of a 10+ slump from running a game and I'm feverishly working on a new campaign to play online using the SUPERB Maptools found at Rptools.net.

The allow a group of people to connect from their PCs and play the game with one another despite...and are far more robust that they initially look.

I know WotC is planning it's own "online" service...but with no release date set, Rptools is the way to go.

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Postby Tamayo » Tue Jul 15, 2008 11:40 am

The WOTC online plan for D&D4 is priced ridiculously, I don't know if any of you are keeping up, but as of now its looking like its gonna be a MMOish monthly fee, in addition to having to purchase virtual figurines (like real life minis), and purchase additional map tilesets and stuff. The amount of content you get for that kinda money is not worth it at all, especially considering most RPG groups meet up once a week, its not like an MMO where you probably play every day. The people on the WOTC forums are pretty upset about it, it seems, so we'll see if they change the pricing model or what. IMO what they should do is, just sell the whole thing like its a video game, priced at like 50/60 bucks, and include all the tile sets/minis in that, and everyone buys that. Then they can release expansions or something later on.
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Postby Waits » Tue Jul 15, 2008 11:45 am

Yeah the pricing is pretty nuts. I could see charging the gamemaster for the amount and allowing the players to come in to for free...but why everyone would need to pay is beyond me.

And paying for virtual figures is balls out laughable, especially if they charge you for each orc you want to buy instead of buying one orc and copy/ pasting it.


Rptools is 100% free and there are thousands community made tiles sets, tokens, creatures and so on to use with it.

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Postby Marcallo » Tue Jul 15, 2008 12:21 pm

And hopefully protected by the fairness in gaming rules or whatever it is.

Wizards online thing is absolutely bar none rediculous in what I've been hearing about it. I agree, charge the DM that runs the games maybe or do very small micro pricing or something, but not a 14.95 a month thing like that. I already avoid MTG:Online because I don't want to pay for "Virtual" cards I can't imagine doing the same with D&D.
Dog carcass in alley this morning, tire tread on burst stomach. This city is afraid of me. I have seen it's true face. The streets are extended gutters and the gutters are full of blood and when the drains finally scab over, all the vermin will drown. The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the whores and politicians will look up and shout "Save us!"...

...and I'll look down, and whisper "no."

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Postby Sord » Wed Jul 16, 2008 12:17 am

That reminds me. I was reading a series of books in Forgotten Realms recently and just got to a part where there was a big battle of Red Wizards of Thay and everything went nuts. All their undead minions went crazy, spells backfired, the land split open, etc. Every magic user stood still for a moment at the direness of the situation. Mystara has died :O
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Postby Waits » Wed Jul 16, 2008 7:30 am

People read all those D&D novels?

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Postby Tamayo » Thu Jul 17, 2008 1:32 pm

are there any chat tools to go along with that RPtools stuff? or what do you guys use, just IRC?
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Postby Sord » Thu Jul 17, 2008 10:36 pm

Waits wrote:People read all those D&D novels?


I read the Forgotten Realms ones and several Greyhawk.
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Postby Waits » Fri Jul 18, 2008 4:43 am

Tamayo wrote:are there any chat tools to go along with that RPtools stuff? or what do you guys use, just IRC?


Maptools has a full chat function that you can talk each other with, including whispering. It's also the area that all the rolling is done...a player rolls dice and the results appear in the chat window (assuming you are rolling dice using Maptools). So, we are using the chat window for all the game related rolling as well as whispers...and then use Vent for all the spoken stuff.

Also, you can make your own macros and there are people that have made them for all of the new, 4e class powers.

You can set up your own campaign properties which are basically the information you want to use for you tokens and lighting. These values an be written into macros to do the dice rolling for you.

As an Example: If you have a 1st level fighter with a +3 to hit from Strength and a +3 to hit from Proficiency you would simply do something like

[d20+3+3] This will roll a d20 and add the modifiers.

Or, provided you have the key words plugged into your Campaign Properties

[d20+str+weaponbonus] This would roll the same as above.

It's a great tool. Really looking forward to getting the campaign going.

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Re: Dungeons and Dragons 4th Edition

Postby skuppy » Tue Jul 29, 2008 6:13 pm

We've played 4th edition up to third level and so far the response is mostly ho-hum. Casters miss their spell books, combat is MUCH faster. Some things are kinda WTF? Does standing up from prone grant opportunity attacks, combat advantage, or nothing? We can't figure it out and were hoping that 4th ed would fix crap like this, or at least make it easier to find and remember.

Dragon-born are kinda neat, three playable elf races is a bit over the top. Magic items in the PHB but seem mostly dumbed down. Things I really like is static hit point system and the new healing options. We're doing a pretty good job of using a Paladin as a healer so no more forcing a player into the cleric class "because the party has to have one".
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Re: Dungeons and Dragons 4th Edition

Postby Tamayo » Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:20 pm

they seem to be turning D&D gameplay into MMORPG style where every class has one role and has to stick to that.. I dunno if I'm a fan of that idea
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Re: Dungeons and Dragons 4th Edition

Postby Feaduin » Thu Jul 31, 2008 4:16 pm

I'm reading the same sentiment from elsewhere... that they are mimmicking MMOs so that they may easily adapt it to a real MMO videogame in the future... I guess the people on those other boards don't count DnD Online as a true MMO.

I've read others accusing it of trying to copy WoW in the way it plays. I spent hours last night trying to figure out what they changed because the Wiki only mentions a little of what changed. I was particularly interested in how the Clerics have been changed. I've always enjoyed playing clerics and I was a bit surprised how powerful a cleric can be in 3e. It was FUN for me though lol.

Anyone have the skinny on how this dynamic has changed? I read some bitching about nurfs and all that.
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Re: Dungeons and Dragons 4th Edition

Postby Marcallo » Thu Jul 31, 2008 4:45 pm

The basic BIGGESt change is that there are no more spell books or praying for spells or whatever. You have At Will Powers, Encounter Powers, and Daily Powers. And there are various ways to recharge them and interact with them that I am not versed enough in higher level play to go into. I've only read the books briefly but everyone has a basic heal they can use at least once an encounter. And priest healing spells are "at will" now as is magic missle. That way as a 1st-3rd level character if you are a caster you don't run out of shit to do.
Dog carcass in alley this morning, tire tread on burst stomach. This city is afraid of me. I have seen it's true face. The streets are extended gutters and the gutters are full of blood and when the drains finally scab over, all the vermin will drown. The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the whores and politicians will look up and shout "Save us!"...

...and I'll look down, and whisper "no."

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Re: Dungeons and Dragons 4th Edition

Postby Tamayo » Thu Jul 31, 2008 4:58 pm

i say forget making a D&D mmo, just make baldurs gate 3 with hand drawn 2D high res graphics
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Re: Dungeons and Dragons 4th Edition

Postby Feaduin » Thu Jul 31, 2008 5:10 pm

So its like a button masher like Gauntlet where your primary button spams magic missile or heal over and over with a few utility abilities thrown in?
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Re: Dungeons and Dragons 4th Edition

Postby Sord » Thu Jul 31, 2008 6:30 pm

Damn I always liked low level wizards, you had to really think and strategize on what spells to memorize for the day. Clerics were always cake cause they don't memorize spells, just pray for them at the time you need and boop, healz inc!

Something I used to do for low level casters, and its an oft overlooked thing, is that wizards are supposed to get exp for every successful spell cast, even if its just a simple light spell, so during the adventure, wizards were able to earn some exps in non-combat situations (same with any spell caster too). Of course it depends on the who the DM was but we were never really to anal about it. If you did something smart, you got exp for playing well.

Sigh gawd dammit this is really making me miss my even nerdier years back in jr. high and high school :( These computer MMO's are fun but they don't hold a candle to my pencil and paper role playing fun.
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Re: Dungeons and Dragons 4th Edition

Postby skuppy » Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:28 pm

Feaduin wrote:So its like a button masher like Gauntlet where your primary button spams magic missile or heal over and over with a few utility abilities thrown in?


Each character has a certain amout of Healing Surges pure day. As a Standard Action any character can take a Second Wind once per encounter to use a Healing Surge and regain 1/4 their total hit points. A Cleric can use an At Will Power and allow any character to use one of their Healing Surges. Some other classes can do this as well, like the Paladin or Warlord. Clerics also have powers where they hit an enemy, and then let a character spend a Healing Surge if they are within 5 squares, or something like that.

Once all the Healing Surges are used up a character must rest for 8 hours to regain them. Characters can take a 5 minute rest to regain HP and Encounter Powers.

And they even have MMO roles for the classes now. The Fighter is "tank", the Warlock is "striker" the Wizard is "crowd control" and so on.

I've heard it's just like a MMO comment from many people now and it's not a bad comparison.

Also saving throws are now "Defenses" so for example a Wizard casts Magic Missle and roles his attack value against the targets Reflex save. Spells no longer have DCs. It's all stuff like Str VS AC, or Dex VS Fort. There are still saving throws but it's a fixed value, anything above 11 saves and NO bonuses, and you almost never use a save in combat, it's for things like to resist dying from negative hit points, or falling off an edge that an enemy pushes you off.

Multiclassing is a bit weird too and really changes the game up. You're basically locked into your class at first level but you can spend feats to take powers from other classes, even at first level. I'm playing a Paladin Cleric and can use the clerics Holy Word heal power once per encounter, a Cleric normally uses a Holy Word as an At Will power. So a Paladin Cleric is nothing at all like a Cleric Paladin.

The one thing I really do like is that the characters move around a lot more on the battle grid. A lot of the powers are geared towards battle movement and it really lets you set up strategies and makes the fights more interesting. Even the bad guys can get in on the action. Gnolls have a power that allows them to automaticly shift whenever a player shifts in combat. Keeps things interesting.
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Re: Dungeons and Dragons 4th Edition

Postby Feaduin » Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:40 pm

ok so if a PC has 5 alloted heal surges per day, then the PC can self activate their own healing during the appropriate turn or the cleric can sort of force him to instantly use one? And the cleric basically doesn't 'cast' a heal spell in the traditional sense but is more like a pokemon trainer that allows nonstandard use of their own abilities? And the other powers are kinda like weapon procs? I know I'm probably oversimplifying... just trying to find well known correlations to understand. So how does it play out during actual combat?
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