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Postby Phat.Stack » Fri Nov 03, 2006 10:44 am

Nice second article by the way, El.

Looking Back

While Im sure you guys aren't out of the woods yet (still covering production/R&D costs), you have to be feeling like the king of the world after how well the WoW TCG was received.

I'm heading back to my local comic shop to support their weekly WoW TCG events, and I certainly hope this game continues to be a success!

Now all I need to do is finish cobbling together my Rogue deck!

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Postby Screwtape » Fri Nov 03, 2006 10:51 am

I will enthrall you with my Puerto Rican voodoo love charms.

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Postby Phat.Stack » Fri Nov 03, 2006 10:57 am

Touché.

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Postby elendril » Mon Nov 06, 2006 10:49 am

a week and a half til gen con so-cal!
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Postby Phat.Stack » Mon Nov 06, 2006 11:17 am

If only I could go!

The WoW TCG scene where I live is really heating up and Im looking forward to playing more frequently there. I had to buy a couple singles off eBay to finish off my rogue deck and once they come in Ill be be headin to ye ol' comic shop to work out the kinks.

Anyone else have a deck project they are working on?
Last edited by Phat.Stack on Mon Nov 06, 2006 12:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby elendril » Mon Nov 06, 2006 11:24 am

i'm working on a bunch of set 2 decks with molten core treasure pack cards! :-P
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Postby Phat.Stack » Mon Nov 06, 2006 12:09 pm

elendril wrote:i'm working on a bunch of set 2 decks with molten core treasure pack cards! :-P


ZOMG CHEATER!!!

:)

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Postby Windigo » Wed Nov 08, 2006 2:04 pm

Let me preface this by saying that I've played two or three night's worth of Magic in my life, using a friend's deck, and that's my complete experience with the CCG/TCG world.

That being said, I'm gay for all things WoW, and picked up a starter after scouring most of Columbus for one. They're currently going for $30 because, well, people will pay it. Ugh. Paladin deck, which was pretty cool. Picked up a few boosters along with it, and got some neat cards, including a few epics.

Talked to my wife about it, and we cobbled together two small decks and played some. We had a blast. The next morning at 7:30am, she wakes me up, wanting to play again. That afternoon we buy her a starter as well (rogue), but she gets an Elendril card, which made her happy. She has no less than 10 hunter characters, none of which are over level 30. A few more booster packs later, she's got a dozen or so hunter ability cards, and we're both on our way to having some decent beginner decks for almost every class. Nothing major, but enough to field a 60 card deck without it being filled with allies and quests. We're crazy short on cloth armor and caster weapons, but we definitely made up for it with weapons and gear to outfit my paladin :)

I'm currently playing a very low-ally deck, fairly equipment heavy, with the few allies being for specific reasons (destroy armor/weapon, flow, etc). A lot of the Paladin abilities feel weak compared to similar abilities that other classes have, and there's some cards that seem to have some poor synergy. That being said, it's pretty fun, but I've nerd progressed beyond the "I have no idea what I'm doing" stage, so my wife is losing some interest. There's a weekly $5 tournament that's somewhat local, that I may check out soon. However, I honestly feel like such a noob still that walking into a place that's filled with 10 year CCG uber-nerds is a bit scary. It's the kind of place that scoffed at me for asking if they had plastic hinge cases to store decks/cards.

Anyways, wanted to post this to let Elendril know he's got another person shelling out cash to work towards the dozens of dream decks in my mind. Seems to be received fairly well in your thread over on the EJ boards too :)

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Postby Phat.Stack » Wed Nov 08, 2006 3:02 pm

Glad to hear you are enjoying the TCG!

Finding a card shop that you feel comfortable in is VERY important. If the card shop you went to isnt the right atmosphere, try looking at this page for a list of stores in your area that hosted release celebration events.

Chances are, games/tourneys are still being held there (they are at the place I went to) and perhaps the atmosphere will be better in a different venue.

Paladin decks rock pretty hard. The have crazy card advantage potential (with most of their spells allowing you to draw a card along with the card's effect), can become very difficult to kill (through heals and armor) and have a TON of cheap ability removal cards. Tack on a skullflame shield, retribution aura and holy shield and you can make people wary of attacking your hero at all!

After my rogue deck is done, I was considering making a pally deck next... but I think Ill wait to see what the metagame is in my area. After getting a better idea of it, Ill design my second constructed deck to specifically beat popular decks in my area.

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Postby Windigo » Thu Nov 09, 2006 9:09 am

Phat.Stack wrote:Glad to hear you are enjoying the TCG!

Finding a card shop that you feel comfortable in is VERY important. If the card shop you went to isnt the right atmosphere, try looking at this page for a list of stores in your area that hosted release celebration events.

Chances are, games/tourneys are still being held there (they are at the place I went to) and perhaps the atmosphere will be better in a different venue.

Paladin decks rock pretty hard. The have crazy card advantage potential (with most of their spells allowing you to draw a card along with the card's effect), can become very difficult to kill (through heals and armor) and have a TON of cheap ability removal cards. Tack on a skullflame shield, retribution aura and holy shield and you can make people wary of attacking your hero at all!

After my rogue deck is done, I was considering making a pally deck next... but I think Ill wait to see what the metagame is in my area. After getting a better idea of it, Ill design my second constructed deck to specifically beat popular decks in my area.


That was the link I used to find the one place in Columbus, Ohio that actually HAD the starters/boosters. It's not that it was a bad place - its a shop for nothing but TCG/CCG/Miniatures, and they seem to draw a nice crowd, it's just that it's quite easy to make a newbie feel even more inferior in a place like that :)

Mayhaps we can do some in-grog trading to complete some decks. Anyone for posting some want/have lists?

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Postby Phat.Stack » Thu Nov 09, 2006 9:13 am

Windigo wrote:Mayhaps we can do some in-grog trading to complete some decks. Anyone for posting some want/have lists?


I just finished off my rogue deck by buying a couple singles off eBay, but this sounds like a great idea for when I go to make my second deck.

I only bought two booster boxes, so I definitely don't have a full set (let alone extras) but if anyone out there has a want list, I say post away.

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Postby elendril » Fri Nov 10, 2006 10:17 am

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Postby elendril » Tue Nov 14, 2006 3:20 pm

gen con so cal this weekend!
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Postby Phat.Stack » Tue Nov 14, 2006 3:38 pm

It looks like the are debuting a bunch of really cool tourney formats at Gen Con.

2v2, Raid deck, Constructed, Lazy Peon, Sealed Deck, Draft... have I missed some?

I just wonder how much UDE is going to support Lazy Peon. Its a great way to have LOTS of alt decks without having to spend a ton of money, but right now I just have to assume that its going to be mostly for casual play between friends.

I really hope the TCG takes hold and gets a good player base developed.

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Postby elendril » Wed Nov 15, 2006 10:19 am

grand melee, 'turnabout', etc. :-P

as for lazy peon - we're definitely encouraging the format as something for players who might not be able to compete with people who have all the rares and epics :-P we'll be playing lazy peon decks for 'win r&d's deck' on thursday and friday :-P
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Postby Lightfeather » Wed Nov 15, 2006 10:22 am

I think you may almost have Niralica matched on the "razz" smily abuse.

:D

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Postby elendril » Wed Nov 15, 2006 11:50 am

it's from my pre-smiley aim chatting days. :) is just a boring smiley, so i took to using :-P
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Postby elendril » Mon Nov 27, 2006 5:34 pm

onyxia raid deck out tomorrow!
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Postby Marcallo » Sat Dec 23, 2006 8:48 am

I bought a full booster box yesterday and a starter deck. I'm a little dissappointed with something. I don't have enough cards to make a decent deck.

I think the packs should have been sold "Alliance Booster Pack", "Horde Booster Pack", "Alliance starter pack", "Horde starter pack". I have tons of alliance cards and all I want to do is play horde. I'm just going to do Alliance repacks and sell them on Ebay or something.

Other than that the game is really cool and I'm looking foward to buying my second box today if the store still has some left and then attempting to build a deck.

Also El, where can I buy the packaging you guys put the starters in? All us gamer nerds LOVE the boxes and want to use them for other things.
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...and I'll look down, and whisper "no."

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Postby Daltos » Wed Jan 03, 2007 11:00 pm

Ok so a couple of friends and I picked up the starter and some boosters. After trading around a bit to make everyones deck mutually good, we started dueling.

So my friend Colin has a hunter deck and I have a paladin deck. There were two instances where we completely disagreed on the rules since the starter deck isn't really clear. Heres the two instances and our opinions, since both were game changing decisions.

My friend put out a pet card that has 3 attack and 1 health. To knock it out of the game and to keep him from effectively putting out better pets (like fury), I put Interest You in a Pint? card on it, which doesn't allow it to attack. He used Arcane Shot on his own pet to kill it so he could put out another pet.

His Opinion: You're allowed to use damage abilities on your own allies to get them out of play, such as direct damage attacks like Arcane Shot.
My Opinion: You can't damage your own allies with abilities that are vague like Arcane Shot deals one damage to target Ally or Hero.

The other instance was when I had my Draconian Deflector up and an ally named Stylean Silversteal which had 4 attack and 5 stealth. He attacked with an ally that does 3 damage, I killed it on the defense. Then he used a ranged bow which does 2 damage to finish it off, but I had a Draconian Deflector, which makes my hero a protector. When he realized that, he asked if he could reverse what he just did, and instead put out Moira Darkheart to destroy my Draconian Deflector first. Moira has an ability to pay one resource which destroys Moira Darkheart and destroys a target armor or weapon. I told him he can't play an Ally and immediately use its ability, since the rules state that you can't use an Allies' ability if it wasn't in your party when play starts.

His Opinion: I'm wrong because the rules state that you can't flip something or exhaust the ally, but doesn't say anything about if the ally is destroyed since its technically not exhaustion but destruction.
My Opinion: He's a douche and is trying to loophole vague rules.

So who is right on each instance?

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Postby PopnFresh » Thu Jan 04, 2007 7:22 am

From what I know of the game, he was right the first time, you were right the second.

I thought the rules were clear for that second one. You can't use an ability of an ally that wasn't in your party at the start of the turn. While the rule book is really poorly written, I'm pretty sure there's a point in it that is specific about this. Otherwise, why not just make her card a god damn Instant? Destruction or not, I'm pretty positive (el or phatty can maybe correct me) that you can't use an ability on an ally when the ally is exhausted. In other words, the same thing would apply if he had Darkheart out for a full turn and then attacked with her. He decided her action that turn was to attack, he can't attack and then use her ability when that attack is over.

As for the first one, I'm pretty sure he was right. I don't see it as a vague ability. "Target ally or hero" is pretty damn specific; the only limitation is by type of card, not whose card you're hitting. It's like targetting your own guys in Final Fantasy when they get put to sleep.
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Postby Niralica » Thu Jan 04, 2007 8:14 am

Lightfeather wrote:I think you may almost have Niralica matched on the "razz" smily abuse.

:D

nuthin' but lub


hahaha! See what I miss when I don't read all the forums. :P Oh look I did it again. :)

So let me be lazy for a second and not reread through 5 pages of thread...
So is the game play good for this and easy to understand? Like could I easily teach it to my parents who are not gamers in any shape or form? :P Not that I could afford to get this card game anyways, just in case though. :P (My mom just brought down a box full of card games, mostly animehem(sp), jihad and L5R, too bad I don't remember how to play any of em. :P )
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Postby PopnFresh » Thu Jan 04, 2007 8:57 am

Nira, it's very similar in mechanics to Magic. If you think you could teach that game to your parents, then they'd be able to pick up on WoW. The only warning I'll give is, as has been touched on a bit in this thread, the rule book is pretty bad. If you have experience with TCGs though, it's not too difficult to fill in the blanks.
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Postby Niralica » Thu Jan 04, 2007 9:07 am

Niftly, but from what Marcallo said sounds like you can't actually play with a starter deck, cause I'm assuming you can either be horde or alliance yes? And if the starter decks have both cards.... Sounds like they went out of their way to milk the most money they can out of the consumer, if they didn't give you a "Starter" deck that you can actually Start playing with. :P And you also have to pick a class? So its more like the magic starter decks which had all 5 colors and yea you "could" play with it, but it would suck hella bad. They should do what L5R did and just sell Warlock deck, Paladin deck etc...

edit~ Oh and I did attempt to teach my mother to play Magic once. :P It prolly would have worked but I gave her a green deck that had giant spiders in it, and she kept turning the cards over cause she didn't want to look at em. :P
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Postby Phat.Stack » Thu Jan 04, 2007 10:14 am

Daltos wrote:My friend put out a pet card that has 3 attack and 1 health. To knock it out of the game and to keep him from effectively putting out better pets (like fury), I put Interest You in a Pint? card on it, which doesn't allow it to attack. He used Arcane Shot on his own pet to kill it so he could put out another pet.


When an ability states "target hero or ally" you may select ANY hero or ally. The card itself will dictate when you can or cannot target a friendly/opposing hero or ally. If Arcane Shot states "target opposing hero or ally" then no, he couldn't.

The type of targets that are targettable are defined on the card itself. No outside rules influence who can and can't be targetted.

However, the rules specifically state that you can't initiate a combat round on your own allies/hero.

601.2 To propose a combat, a player must choose one character in his or her party to be the proposed attacker and one opposing character to be the proposed defender.


In conclusion, Arcane Shotting your own pet is legal. In your case, Daltos, you did get the upper hand in resource and card advantage because of it, though.

Now, one thing your friend obviously didn't know is that he can still play another pet card even if you CC his current one. When a hunter or warlock has a pet in play and plays ANOTHER pet card, he simply has to decide which pet stays in play and which goes to the discard pile. Of course, he will choose the one you played IYIAP on to be discarded.

You can't "pet lock" a hunter or warlock by CCing his current pet. Now, you ARE forcing him to spend resources to bring out a new pet, so there are tactical advantages to CCing pets... normally though, you shouldn't do it unless its a particularly dangerous or annoying pet.

Daltos wrote:Moira has an ability to pay one resource which destroys Moira Darkheart and destroys a target armor or weapon. I told him he can't play an Ally and immediately use its ability, since the rules state that you can't use an Allies' ability if it wasn't in your party when play starts.


From the WoW TCG FAQ

Q: What can't I do the turn an Ally comes into play?

A: They cannot use any Activated abilities or Attack until they have been in your party since the beginning of your turn. The exception to this is Freocity which allows an Ally to attack the turn they come into play.


"Activated abilities" are defined as any ability that requires a card to tap as a part of the payment power. Since Moira doesn't have to tap to play her ability, she CAN use it on the turn she is brought out.

Now, looking closely at the situation, your opponent just wasted 5 resources PLUS a 3/4 ally to break your shield. There are far lower resource cost cards that can destroy equipment, and you don't have to sac and ally to boot. When your opponent plays Moira and immediately sacs her, you just gained a great board advantage. Of course, if he then proceeds to get a killing blow on you while you are tapped out and can't heal or use your flip ability... then that means either A) you were getting pwned anyway or B) you planned out your resource allocation poorly that round.

So, unfortunately, your friend was correct in both cases.


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